Why no Next to Normal, or ...........??????

[Taboolie2]

I am so sick of revivals (Cats, Kiss me Kate, Spamalot, etc..,) Juke box Shows (Spice Girls,Rock of Ages, arrrggghhh)and kiddie shows (Shrek, Wizard of.., Matilda, Charlie and...). When will we get something really exiting like Next to Normal, Bonnie and Clyde, Jane Eyre, Catch Me if you Can to name but a few. Surely Menier, Union or Donmar can stage Next to Normal? Am I the only one who feels like this. Aaaaarrrrgggghhhhh!!!!!!!

[DanielWhit]

Well - Cats isn't confirmed to transfer in (the tour isn't starting for another 6 months), Spamalot is a "summer filler" in the hope to catch the tourist market.

I don't think you could really describe Matilda (or even Wizard of Oz) as a "kiddie show" either. Charlie and the Chocolate Factory hasn't even begun yet so I don't think that can be slated yet either.

How well Book of Mormon is received will be interesting, Broadway producers may become more eager to transfer things in to the West End if that sells well. I think Spring Awakening knocked that whole machine for six, understandably so.

But yes, I agree - Next to Normal landing over here would be superb. There are rumours Once is looking at coming over (though arguably that's got origins in the British Isles anyway!).

[rjm516]

I would love Bonnie & Clyde to come here. I have a feeling it would work here even though it didn't in NYC.

[mallardo]

I agree that Spring Awakening's failure plus, I would add, the failure of the "sure thing" Drowsy Chaperone, put a damper on the importation of even slightly risky shows. Next To Normal would fall into that category but its pedigree is high enough that the National Theatre could justify putting it on - if the NT EVER does another musical.

I didn't see Bonnie and Clyde but I agree that it sounds amazing. Could it work in the West End? I'd like to think so but I honestly doubt it.

[DeNada]

If the NT ever does another musical other than the astonishingly good London Road, which they've revived this year, and the forthcoming Light Princess, you mean? Oh, and Fela?

[mallardo]

Yes, I mean a REAL musical.

[Mark_E]

Sorry, but London Road/Fela ARE real musicals. Just because they are a different sort of show doesn't than the traditional norm doesn't mean the National isn't staging musical theatre.

[Musical-Matt]

as a lover of musical theatre im going to throw my eggs into the basket. yes revivals always happen but its been a fair while since we had a cats or kiss me kate revival (the last time cats was revised it was a tour and kiss me kate being the broadway revival which landed in the victoria palace)and the difference with spamalot is that it is a completely different production to the original which i liked. I would love to see next to normal open in the west end as i think the show is stunning. i think before bonnie and clyde makes its way over to the west end i think there are other shows which deserve a decent run in the west end. I think scarlet pimpernel would have faired better in the west end, i think catch me if you can would stand a fair chance, elf, titanic, addams family and so on. all these shows that never made it across the pond that deserve a fair chance. goodness knows how many shows from the west end that have crossed the pond weather it be from the national or an ALW or a west end based sondhiem or even CMS and AB. In my opinion all shows deserve a chance weather it be a show like matilda or wizard of oz (which are far from kids shows)or even the juke box musicals which i enjoy :)

[peggyb2]

Oh yes Taboolie2-I too would love to see some grown-up musicals like Next to Normal in London.I will be unpopular but to me Matilda is certainly a family show if not a kiddies one.I quite enjoyed it but I found the music unmemorable and I can't understand how it won so many awards.These days I just head for the fringe if I want decent theatre.

[Musical-Matt]

i still believe there is a lot of grown up musicals in the west end at the moment. as mark pointed out london road and fela had very adult books

[abitoftap]

Matilda (IMHO) as some of the best new show music for years. It's really worth investing time listening to the CD. After we saw the show, the music seemed 100 times better.
Now Billy Elliot is a great show, but I can't remember when I last listened to the cast recording.
And clearly, the fact that Next to Normal has not had a UK production is beyond belief.

[Phantom of London]

-If the NT ever does another musical other than the astonishingly good London Road, which they've revived this year, and the forthcoming Light Princess, you mean? Oh, and Fela?-

Yeap I agree it is great that the National Theatre is doing so much to appease the musical theatre community, roughly 1 musical every 2 years, instead of doing elitist esoteric plays that pandas to a niche audiences most of the time.

As I said before on here Nicholas Hytner should resign and The National Theatre should loss its £20m grant.

[DeNada]

Yeah! All those horribly elitist productions they do, like The Curious Incident of the Dog in the Nighttime, based on a hugely bestselling book! And One Man Two Guvnors, which isn't at all a crowd-pleasing comedy starring someone off the telly! And man, that guy who wrote Timon of Athens, Shakespeare, he's such an esoteric playwright - who's heard of him or George Bernard Shaw? And how about that stupid thing with the horse puppets, no-one ever wants to see that.

How would YOU programme the National, Phantom? What would your varied repertoire appealing to a broad audience be?

[MusicalBoy]

I think the outstandingly high standard (as well as the brilliant pricing) of the National Theatre more than makes up for any bias towards straight plays.

[DeNada]

Well, exactly.

Nick Hytner has said he's not a fan of doing lots of musicals, and I can understand that - National Theatres in other countries don't tend to stage a lot of musicals either, they're very commercial and very expensive. But when the few musicals the National has given us in his tenure include Jerry Springer, Caroline Or Change, and London Road in particular, I don't think there's a huge amount to complain about - and while I didn't care much for Fela, I am HUGELY excited about Light Princess whenever that comes around.

[Phantom of London]

Yeap for all stupid things called horse puppets which is excellent and One Man, Two Guvnors, which is very crowd pleasing and is really good, what about all this flops or critical failures that we don't hear about?

[DeNada]

We do hear about them, though. Greenland was a fiasco. Nation was underwhelming. Rocket To The Moon was fairly average. 13 was an acquired taste. That's just a few off the top of my head in the past year or so - and that's from reading the reviews. It's the same critics reviewing the shows that review big musicals in London - it's not like you have to look anywhere different from normal.

To be blunt, just because you don't pay much attention to what's on at the National doesn't mean that other people don't. Just because it doesn't serve your musical theatre interests doesn't mean other people don't go there all the time - according to the National's last financial report, the 2010-11 season played to 90% capacity.

In the shows in your signature, I count the following as National Theatre productions:

Swallows and Amazons
Juno and the Paycock
She Stoops to Conquer
Detroit
Moon On A Rainbow Shawl
One Man Two Guvnors
Last of the Haussmans

You only appeared to hate She Stoops and dislike Moon On A Rainbow Shawl. Are you saying you're part of a narrow, elitist audience by seeing SEVEN different National Theatre productions in a year?

[Phantom of London]

Thank you for you replies so far and opening up a good discussion.

I also saw Collabrators and Travelling Light and all the shows I have seen this year there I have enjoyed for different reasons, but there is a hierarchy to my enjoyment, like all theatre fans, I am not elitist but just a theatre fan.

I would hate to see the National Theatre become like the New York Lincoln Centre, which there main house (Vivian Beaumont) has been very static for performances, think there have been 3 or 4 productions in the last 5 years and one of those was a great revival (South Pacific) and the other a National theatre import (Warhorse), where to me the National theatre is the juxtaposition of the Lincoln and has become a conveyor belt of plays, (6 shows, usually play at once), which in itself can lead to mediocrity, some people will argue that the National theatre has already become that, sprinkled with the odd exception gem.

I am not arguing that the National should become predominantly musical and I do enjoy a good play, but my passions are in musical theatre.

But where are the National Theatre bringing great musicals from Broadway that are commercially unviable for the West End such as: Next to Normal, In The Heights or The Color Purple etc and putting them in the Lyttelton Theatre? Or great Olivier winning revivals, which Trevor Nunn used to do on a regular basis and let them light up the Olivier Theatre? Where are they promoting great fringe theatre, given potential future great composers or lyricists there first break, why do we never see anything brought down from the Edinburgh festival to enthral the Cottesloe Theatre?

[ClapYo'Hands]

If they do The Color Purple I'll lose all faith.

[abitoftap]

The last thing I would want to happen is the Olivier to be used for long runners..if the show's a success you would hope it would move elsewhere (like eg Warhorse/Oklahoma/Anything Goes etc etc)

[Phantom of London]

^ 100% with you on this, yeap open at the National and if the demand is there, move to a West End main house. I did say I wouldn't want the National Theatre to be like the Lincoln Centre, therefore wouldn't want shows hanging around forever and I did make my point quite formidably?

[mallardo]

The Lincoln Center theatres are not government subsidized like the NT. They operate for profit and if they get a hit they stick with it like any other commercial theatre. Nothing wrong with that.

There is no equivalent to the NT in the US and probably never will be given the current oppressive climate there.

Yes, I would love to see the NT do Next To Normal or In The Heights - which would be sensational on the big stage of the Olivier - since neither of those great shows will probably ever play the West End.

But I would never criticize what the NT DOES do. Their track record under Hytner is quite extraordinary.

[bdn223]

If you think about it the main reason the US doesn't have a National Theatre is because its cultural capitols (NYC and LA) are not the same as its government capitol (washington DC), they arn't even the state capitols of their respective states (California and New York). This is in stark contrast to the rest of the countries of the world. In NYC though the function of NT is replaced by the Nonprofits which may have their fair share of duds, but still turn out winners. For plays there are MTC, the Public, 2nd Stage, Lincoln Center, and Roundabout Underground. For new musicals there are 2nd Stage, the Public, and Atlantic.

Back to the point though there is a West End producer out there with the rights to n2n in his back pocket. That is the main reason that their havn't even been amateur productions due to the producer holding the rights to the premier UK production. Spring Awakenings transfer catastrophe definitly forced the n2n transfer onto the backburner. The NT would probably love to put it on and make a star at out their Diana alla Alice Ripply (who did have Side Show, but hadn't really worked since then), but that producer won't relinquish the rights. If I had to bet s/he is waiting on a star for Diana, starting the forseeable trend of n2n becoming the new Gypsy, where its no longer Styne's, Sondheim's and Laurents Gypsy, but Bernadette Peters'/Patti Lupone's Gypsy.

Think about Mary Poppins Disney wanted it on the stage years before Beauty came along, but Travers hated the movie so much she refused to give them the rights. In the end her estate eventually sold them to Makintosh, who then went to Disney, and if he didnt the rights and someone else did we might get something like the upcoming Charlie and the Chocolate factory, which no one knows if the films classic songs will be included since the rights are coming from the Dhal estate to producer X instead to the film company.

[ClapYo'Hands]

"where its no longer Beirnstein and Laurents Gypsy, but Bernadette Peters'/Patti LuPone's Gypsy."

It's Bernstein and he didn't compose the score for Gypsy, Jule Styne did.

[bdn223]

Corrected sorry, but it adds to my point that people don't know who wrote one of the Greatest Musicals of All Time...

[ClapYo'Hands]

I think they know Bernadette Peters didn't write it...