Phantom and Sweeney

[cwilliams]

I will be taking a group of students to London, Paris and Madrid in a few weeks. The two shows I'm looking to offer to the students are Phantom of the Opera and Sweeney Todd, most of the students have never seen a musical on stage, Ive seen Phantom many times but have never seen Sweeney Todd live. The students will be able to choose which one they want to see, I'm not sure which one I should go to, mainly because I am a huge Phantom fan. For those who have seen them any thoughts/reviews on these productions? How is the production of Phantom these days, I hear they have a new Phantom..Peter Joback

[peggyb2]

Definitely Sweeney Todd!

[246015]

I have not seen "Phantom" recently, but when I saw the production in the Summer of 2008 it looked incredibly tired and dated. The big moment that everyone essentially comes for (the falling of the chandalier) moved at a snail's pace and was laughable. The rest of the production didn't really hold my attention either and I left feeling I had wasted an evening. I haven't heard about them revamping the production recently so it will probably be much the same. Also judging by his (albeit short) performance at the 25th Anniversary Peter Joback is one to miss, unless of course he is better in person/has improved recently?

"Sweeney" for me is the best bet. By far one of the best productions of one of the greatest musicals ever written. Perhaps the greatest production I have seen of ANYTHING EVER! Everything in my opinion is vastly superior to anything in "Phantom". You must go if only for Imelda's sublime performance as Mrs. Lovett - one of the best performances I have EVER seen! Michael Ball is also an absolute revelation!

[philitalia]

I'd recommend Sweeney Todd as well, but it depends on their age and their knowledge of English (are they foreign students?).

For a first-timer Phantom is surely a fantastic spectacle.

[cwilliams]

Thanks, I have heard great things about this production of Sweeney Todd, and I love the music, although I have not heard any of the current London cast recording. BTW I attend shows in NYC often and usually I will go to the stage door to get my playbill signed, is this something that London theatre fans do as well? and if so, has anyone stage doored at Sweeney or Phantom?

[cwilliams]

I teach high school in Houston Texas. My students are between 16-18 years old. About half have said they want to see Phantom for sure, but some are undecided.

[246015]

For "Sweeney", Michael and Imelda don't generally come out of the stage door after matinees (or they certainly didn't when I went to see the show). If it is an evening show I think you should be ok. Other cast members are there to sign programmes, have pictures etc.

Do not know about "Phantom" as I have never stage-doored for it. Hopefully someone else will be able to help you on that one.

Give the new "Sweeney" CD a listen. Though it's not a complete recording and therefore will never replace the Original Broadway recording, it is a stunning listen and a great document of the two central performances. However, I can only hope that if it gets to New York, a label like PS Classics will pick it up and make a complete 2-disc recording, then that would be pretty much definitive! Speaking of a possible Broadway transfer, I don't suppose anyone has heard anything about it happening?

[hermajesty]

Definitely Sweeney

[Mark_E]

Phantom is gonna be around for the foreseeable future. This great production of Sweeney is around for a few more months! See it while you can, it is an excellent production!

[ClapYo'Hands]

Both are excellent. One thing I would add, however (as someone who HAS) seen the show recently is that The Phantom of the Opera is in a brilliant state production-wise and is (IMO) fayring better than other long-runners (Lea Misèrables included). I can't speak for Joback (who many are saying to be fantastic) but many of the current cast are fantastic in their roles - Killian Donnelly (Raoul) Barry James and Gareth Snook (Firmin and Andre) and Wendy Ferguson (Carlotta) not to mention alternate Christine Katy Treharne who is the best Christine I have ever seen.

The brilliant thing about this production is I believe you still get now what you got in 1986 - I don't feel as if the show, production or orchestra have been cheapened in any way (something I feel HAS happened with Les Misèrables) and I hope that the current UK Tour won't affect that.

[philitalia]

Clap, I certainly agree with you on the orchestra. A few years ago they changed the whole sound system at the theatre and it's a BIG difference - never sounded better

[Phantom of London]

Both are excellent, so agree with above.

If you haven't been to the theatre before and taking them to see 'Sweeney Todd', is like someone been trapped in a earthquake for several days and rescued alive, then fed on your favourite cakes and chocolate, Sweeney is a great show, if you understand your theatre.

The spectacle of Phantom will ensure some of your pupils will want to come back to see theatre in the future, the best gift any tutor can give their pupils.

Sweeney Todd is a brilliant show, but not if you are a theatre virgin.

[cwilliams]

I agree about Phantom being a great "first show" for someone to see, it was mine, my grandmother took me to NYC when I was 6 years old in June of 1988. Phantom was my first musical and it remains my favorite. Some of my students are on the fence because I showed the Tim Burton directed Sweeney Todd in my class in the last week of school, and the students really got into it, a lot of them were surprised by how much they enjoyed it. I think I will most def go to Sweeney Todd because its a limited run I don't wanna miss it, perhaps next year I'll catch Phantom.

[246015]

I agree that the orchestra for "Phantom" sounds stunning, but then why shouldn't it - it's an Andrew Lloyd Webber show after all. However, certainly when I saw it last, back in 2008, it was clearly showing its age. As I said, the chandelier moved at a snail's pace, the set was extremely clunky and loud and I spent the first 10 minutes of the show watching stage management try to get a huge cloth off a piece of the set while the show carried on. I certainly didn't consider it much of a spectacle and was left utterly bored. My boredom was obviously shared by the cast at the time who seemed to sleep walk their way through the show (and this was with Ramin Karimloo). I can't imagine that these fundamental things to the show have changed so much since then.

In contrast, I don't think "Les Mis" is showing it's age at all. I think the 25th Anniversary overhaul has given it a boost and is now better than ever. "Phantom" certainly looks the older of the two shows and is a fossil in comparison. I for one would like to see an overhaul of the show if it is to continue running (although many on here will disagree with me).

[Phantom of London]

I don't disagree with you, but your opinion on the Phantom is one that has been formed by seeing shows many many times, which has made you a 'expert' on theatre. These kids won't have this learnt experience. I adore Les Miserables, it is up there in my favourite shows of all time, but no no no no no no it is the wrong show to take someone for their first taste of theatre.

I am not overfond of 'Wicked', I just don't get it, as everyone knows on this board, as I must have sounded like a pompous windbag over the years on here. but it is a brilliant show to take pupils for their first taste of theatre. In fact both of my cousin are coming up in the summer and they have never been to the theatre before, so taking them up to Wicked for their first show, so have to sit through it again, don't worry I will have the 'diazepam' ready.

[hermajesty]

I took my friend to see Wicked, I had already seen it and loved it. He didn't like it and said he didn't know what it was all about. Then I said about the connection with the Wizard of Oz and to my surprise....he had never seen The Wizard of Oz!!

[The Scorpion]

I disagree that Phantom seems a fossil compared to Les Mis. Both shows are in very good states for their age, and it helps that both are period pieces. I never understand these complaints about 'loud-sounding' sets -- the whole point of Phantom is theatricality. Hal Prince wanted you to smell the fabric and the incense. Hearing a dressing room wheeled on stage adds to the atmosphere, and to be honest, I think 246015 is exaggerating how loud it is -- I've seen Phantom plenty of times and I've barely noticed it. I will say though that the Queen's is in a better state than Her Majesty's Theatre. But Miz has been hacked to pieces over the years, the orchestra is considerably smaller now and I'm not fond of the new orchestrations, plus it seems to have started going down the stunt casting route in recent years. Phantom's never done this and its huge 27-piece orchestra, the largest in the West End and Broadway, remains intact. I also think the London production is in generally better shape than Broadway's Phantom,

Honestly, both Sweeney and Phantom are great shows and are two of my all-time favourites. Sweeney might be more complicated to follow in terms of storyline, but if your students are at all familiar with the recent Tim Burton film starring Johnny Depp, that might not be a problem. Also with Sweeney you get the benefit of seeing two big theatre stars at the top of their game, although I doubt your students will have necessarily heard of them. You can't really go wrong with either.

[ThankstoPhantom]

The London production of Phantom of the Opera is like seeing a different show if you've seen it in New York. It's better maintained and is in a much more intimate (and, I think, thus appropriate) space. The show is a masterclass in direction/design marriage, and the potential that musical theatre gives to staging things beyond the literal.

I will say that we need to stop saying people come for the falling chandelier, because most don't. Shows don't live on one spectacular moment. If they did, there would be many flops that would have succeeded.

[Phantom of London]

^ I don't agree I prefer the Phantom in the Majestic than the Majesty, who said theatre is subjective?

246015, as you know theatre is VERY organic, so it could just be a bad performance of Phantom you saw, four years ago.

Guys
Can we go back to the original question, the question isn't what is the best long running show, it is what is the best show to take someone to, who has never been to theatre?

cWilliams
Can't you take your students to see the Phantom, then on another occasion sneak off for a matinee of Sweeney Todd?

[MusicalBoy]

Absolutely Sweeney Todd.

- Phantom will be around for years
- Sweeney Todd would be more interesting to students
- It's better

[ClapYo'Hands]

Let them vote?

[Outoftowner2]

See Sweeney Todd. It's brilliant, it's a show set in London, so "there's no place like London" to see it! It's a limited run, this amazing cast will probably never be together again. There will probably be an opportunity for these kids to see Phantom without ever leaving Houston. If not, they can see it for years to come in many different places, not so for Sweeney. They will love it!

[Wishing Only Wounds]

You said the children can choose, right? So this question is mainly just for you, correct?

Anyway, I'm sure someone can give a little more insight, but it is VERY likely that Sweeney wil transfer to Broadway. So, as shocked as I am writing this, seeing the original production of the Phantom is an experience you may want to take advantage of. If you're able to get to New York, you may just want to wait for Sweeney, as Michael and Imelda would be coming with it.

[ClapYo'Hands]

Not as likely as you think, I fear...

[06s091]

It's actually not that likely.
They want to transfer it to Broadway but they need financial backing and a theatre.
Apparently the London transfer almost didn't happen.

[cwilliams]

Thanks for all the great responses. I let the students vote. 8 are going to Phantom 3 are going to Sweeney Todd, we booked for July 7th Sat, night. Our trip includes London, Paris and Madrid. We will be in London July 6-8 then onto Paris. I decided to attend Sweeney Todd because from what I have heard this is an amazing production and I don't wanna miss it. Although I may try to catch Phantom friday night or Les Miz if Sierra is playing Fantine. I would like to see Phantom in its orginal home one day, I have seen it at the Majestic in NYC about 20 times, also in Las Vegas several times and around the US on tour. I don't think the show looked "dated" or "tired" anytime I ever saw it. BTW in Paris I am going to catch the Tim Burton exhibit, by chance anyone seen it? Im a huge fan of his work.