Make it like it was...

[devonian.t]

Do you remember about two years ago what it was like on the West End board?

Everyone used to comment on how nice it was, how everyone talked to each other respectfully and how there was a really great exchange of ideas.

Just lately it seems like it's been getting very personal and unnecessarily nasty. Maybe it's trolls, maybe not.

I'm not pointing any fingers, and maybe you think I've been out of line, but as the great you-know-who says:

don't you remember? It was good, it was really good

It would be such a shame to lose long-term members, many of who contribute a great deal of inside knowledge and goss.

What do you think?

[abitoftap]

I think you're right.
However, there's also occasions when some longstanding members get a bit narky because some one new does something different, which is equally unnecessary.
I think a recent silliness was arguing over who started a particular thread first. Let it go!
I've often thought my contributions usually seem to end the thread I've just posted on.

[philitalia]

"I've often thought my contributions usually seem to end the thread I've just posted on"

---- Just to prove you wrong I'll reply.

I like a bit of lighthearted banter, like we have on here sometimes, but I noticed unnecessary negativity on here lately, especially by posters who never (or hardly ever) post on the WestEnd board.

"It would be such a shame to lose long-term members, many of who contribute a great deal of inside knowledge and goss"
---- So true.

[Jimbob2]

Not sure it's got less personable Devonian.t The first time I posted here, probably around 2 years ago, my opinion was slammed down with one of those "when you've been on this board as long as I have you'll have a right to speak" ripostes. It was about six months ago I noticed it was seeming more friendly on the Broadway board.

Tbh I think on the 'West End board' (as in life) there's just fewer of us, getting more fervent while scrapping over fewer bones (I'm referring to musical theatre in particular, which always seems to draw blood and lipgloss in equal measure). Perhaps it's the recession and everyone's getting a bit desperate to champion their thing.

I've often thought I was a 'thread killer' too abitoftap, so you're not alone in that feeling. Can be useful sometimes though :)

[Princeton Returns]

I would disagree, there seems to be more people on here now and it's less clique than it sometimes was in the past. It's a public forum not peoples own websites. Plus it's the Internet, should never been taken too seriously

[Jimbob2]

Sorry Princeton I wasn't very clear. I didn't mean there are fewer people on this board than there once were; just that our Musical Theatre scene is smaller, and the board matches that. I think that smallness is part of what causes friction as all our own projects, or things/people we champion hang by a pretty thin thread in the UK.

I think you're right, the spread of contributors is a bit wider here recently, so it's less like crashing someone's party.

[Owen22]

I am one of those who might be thought of as a "negative" poster. I have specific reasons for going negative however. There's a certain old school poster on here, might I call him the "queen" of the London BBW boards, who seems to have some inside knowledge so he is issued some respect. Which he abuses. If there is a show he doesn't like or a show he thinks unworthy, he will just blatantly lie or exaggerate to throw shade on said production. I'm not sure why, its like if he says it its true in his own little world. I'm not sure the point. But since he does have a modicum of respect here there are people who are going to actually believe him. Now, I'm somewhat plugged in myself, so I know the truth and when I see his bull I'm going to call him out on it and let everyone know my opinion of him. I'm sorry if that makes the boards less polite.

[songanddanceman2]

Well i adore everyone on the West End board, you have all been so kind for so many years with a few of you guys even turning out to see my plays. It does seem we have more people posting on here now which is great though. I have not seen much negativity on here though......Except Owen and Mamma's wars, and sorry Owen but after the non stop bashing you gave me on the Carrie thread on the Broadway Board i am inclined to think you do like to create drama and start an argument.

I know Mamma and have met him and he is a lovely guy who has a great inside knowledge in to many shows, as does Princeton and Anything Goes, sometimes we get stuff wrong but hey, i don't think that is any reason to target him.

Anyway, that is just my thoughts

[Owen22]

Songanddanceman2. What I think I dislike about you and Mama most is your fake civility. I'm a bitch and proud of it. But I like how you pretend that I was just a crass troll monster picking on you for no reason.

As much as I disliked your CONSTANT barrage of "Carrie" apologia I was far from the only person on the Broadway boards to come down on your annoying, incessant banter (you were taken to task for it again just TODAY by someone other than me on those particular boards**). I actually didn't start on you until you lied to back up one of your lame opinions. And before you start crying, I wasn't even the person to call you out on that particular lie. But after that I considered you fair game.

Do you detect a serial thread in what sets me off? Good. So don't do it.

**for those who want or need proof check out the Broadway "Bare Announces Off-Broadway Engagement..." thread. Or don't, I'd respect you all so much more if you could care less about all this.

[abitoftap]

Oh dear...

[Princeton Returns]

@jimbob, sorry I was disagreeing with the original post, not yours :)

I meant now we seem to have more people on here and that to me is better

[DeNada]

We've already lost several longer term members recently - I think exedore moved back to the States, and Weez doesn't post here any more either which is a shame. Is Scripps2 still here?

Part of it, I suspect, is the existence of Whatsonstage. The forums there are thriving - it's a very different posting culture in the musicals forum, much more focused on which-cover-is-on-tonight etc., but the plays forum there is fantastic, some really interesting discussion going on (not as in depth as the bitchfests in the Guardian blog comments, but still interesting). As it's London-focused there's naturally a bigger community there.

[mallardo]

Even so, compare this board to the Broadway board that most of us also post on. So much nicer over here.

[songanddanceman2]

Owen i am not going to argue with you because you have the incredible ability to not admit when you are wrong, so arguing with you is like arguing with Cujo, the rabid dog who just keeps on coming.

Firstly you accused me of lying about 2 things. The first thing was that you kept going on and on about on the Carrie thread (i can pull it up if you like?) that i was lying that i had a naughty DVD copy of the show. You kept calling me a liar and i kept telling you i was not lying. To shut you up i sent you a private message, copied and pasted below is what it said.

'God knows what your problem is with me but i HATE getting made out that i am a liar. I have strong opinions and i stick to them, no matter if everybody else disagrees, i wont be shot down for that. A mate of mine trades bootleg musicals and he got Carrie, i was going to wait to watch it but i wanted to see it so badly to enjoy this (what was until you started) pleasant discussion with Besty etc (who i have chatted to on PM here about how NICE it is that we can both debate without it turning nasty) so i watched his copy

I don't need to lie but you seem to want to push and push. I have been on this board for many many years, i even write articles for the West End section of this board. Now if you do not like my opinion that's fine, but this constant bullying on the board is getting out of hand.

I then on the same message also sent you SCREEN GRABS from the DVD i had, i sent you about 8 or 9, i can add them on here if you want me to? Oddly enough i did not get a single message back from you, you just did not acknowledge it at all, because you knew you were wrong, it was very clear from screen grabs that they were from a bootleg.

The other thing you started trying to make me out to be a liar on was running my own production company. This came up when i expressed interest in my company taking on Carrie. Many on here, especially the ones on my Facebook will tell you that you were wrong about that as well.

You see Owen, everybody pokes fun that i am a major Carrie fan, and it's fine, we have a laugh and a joke about it. On the Carrie thread me a Besty had very different opinions but were talking and discussing, it was great. People like Namo (who i adore and have chatted to on PM several times) or Blaxx (who we wind up on purpose for a giggle) can poke fun and laugh, and they did, just like i poke fun at Namo's obsession with Madonna hating, but you took it way to far, your's were not like the others, joking or debating, you were just flat out being rude. People on that thread who disagreed with my views on Carrie etc messaged ME telling me to pay no attention to you.

And i don't pretend to be nice, i am nice, i have my bitchy moments and if someone p****s me off i will bite back, sorry i dont share that 'I'm a bitch and at least i admit it' thing.

Now i don't know what has happened between you and Mamma, but all i know is that you went to far with me on the Carrie thread (the first time i had ever spoken to you) and could not admit at all when you were wrong.

[jaqs]

Well this thread seems to have had the opposite effect.

I do think there is less to discuss right now, award season is over, all the most recent musicals in town are transfers (which makes me feel a bit more excited about Viva forever than I would be usually, at least it will be new to all of us at once).

[exedore]

*ahem* *passes around some tea to calm everybody down*

I am indeed back in the US these days (Seattle to be precise) thanks to an expired visa and not earning the £40,000pa required to renew and get a new term of stay. Theatre's also more expensive here (at least for me - no more free tickets from certain organisations and working press) so I don't get to go as often.

That said, I'll be at the 5th Avenue's promo night for their upcoming production of RENT tonight and giving a pre-show lecture on Jonathan Larson and RENT's development one night during the run itself. I've also got my first (and likely last, given the headache the actual publication side has been) academic theatre article clearing its second round of peer review, so at least something good has come out of all this...

Oh, and I'll be making a special guest appearance in London during panto season. So much to see and so little time.

[devonian.t]

I don't know- the majority view seems to be that civility is a good thing.

exedore, it's nice to hear from you, too. I only know Seattle from Frasier- I don't know if it's a fair representation but it seems like a nice city.

[iluvtheatertrash]

Maybe it's all those times on the Broadway board, but you guys always seem to have such nice, kind conversation! It's such a relief to come over here...

[Scripps2]

"Is Scripps2 still here?"

I'm still here DeNada.

I'm spread more thinly on the ground than I used to be so there's less time for posting unfortunately, but that's austerity Britain in 2012.

I also think there's less to post about. Somehow, I'm not as excited about theatregoing as I have been in recent years.

"it's less clique than it sometimes was in the past"

I don't think it was ever cliquey. I could have taken that attitude when I joined the board but I didn't. I used basic, good social skills and manners, and I was welcomed with open arms. If I am perceived as now being part of that clique then it is a result of understanding appropriate human interaction and applying it to those new people I was corresponding with via this message board when I joined it.

"I've often thought my contributions usually seem to end the thread I've just posted on."

I tend to find that on the Broadway board but not here. I can't decide whether it's a result of a) a well-reasoned post; b) an intimidating intellect or c) the difference in time zones.

"the majority view seems to be that civility is a good thing."

I echo Dev's opinion.

[devonian.t]

Not wanting to rake over the coals too much, just a couple more things.

1. I hope I don't come across as trying to police the board. I really hate the way some people on other boards try to define the way the board has to be- I'm just asking- please- that we are considerate to each other, since we all share the same interest/ passion.

2. Can we try to avoid this policing of the threads stuff- telling people not to start threads etc. It's not like there are bandwidth issues, or hundreds of threads being started each day. Does it really matter if 2 threads are started on the same subject? Does it matter if a thread is started on a subject that was discussed the week before?

God knows, I don't want to be some kind of board monitor, but could we all resist the temptation to take up that post?

The last few days have been a lot more good-humoured. Haven't they?

Love, peace, freedom, happiness!